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Ken Starr Is Coming After Your Marriage

by: Robert Cruickshank

Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 16:02:16 PM PST


The Yes on 8 campaign wants to invalidate 18,000 same sex marriages - they've filed a brief with the California Supreme Court to that effect today.

With Ken Starr - yes, that Ken Starr - as their lead counsel:

The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters approved the ballot initiative that outlawed gay unions.

The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief arguing that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions.

"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Pepperdine University law school dean Kenneth Starr, the former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton....

The measure's backers announced Friday that Starr, a former federal judge and U.S. solicitor general, had signed on as their lead counsel and would argue the cases.

Aside from the horrific nature of this, and the irony in Ken Starr's involvement, it's also a pretty important opportunity to communicate to California just what Prop 8 does. It divorces 18,000 couples. Many Yes on 8 supporters lied to themselves and their families, saying that they weren't hurting anyone, just trying to protect families from teh gays. Well now the mask comes off, and this really is about making a whole lot of people suffer.

UPDATE by Brian: As Be_Devine pointed out in November, Jerry Brown is not bound to defend Prop 8.  Back then, Brown was saying that he was going to defend it in the courts. Today, the AG announced that he submitted a brief opposing Prop 8, saying that it should be struck down on the amendment/revision grounds. (h/t to AmericanRiverCanyon in the comments)

UPDATE 2 by jsw:  We are also hearing reports that the Yes on 8 campaign is saying that the court made them attack current marriages in this brief.  That's not true.  The sum total of the language demanding briefing on this issue in the Supreme Court's show cause order of November 19 is this:

If Proposition 8 is not unconstitutional, what is its effect, if any, on the marriages of same-sex couples performed before the adoption of Proposition 8?

Nothing in that question required the Yes on 8 campaign to argue that the state should forcibly void the marriages of people who are currently married.  Ken Starr, now the primary legal representative of the anti-justice forces behind Yes on 8, is merely making public the true agenda of the leaders of the Yes on 8 campaign:  gay people should not have equal rights before the law, and the rights they do have should be taken away.  It's just that simple, and everything else they said during the campaign was basically a lie.
Robert Cruickshank :: Ken Starr Is Coming After Your Marriage
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Please tell me the CA Supreme Court won't actually (8.00 / 1)
invalidate these marriages.  Outlawing Prop 8 will take balls on their part, but outlawing the marriage rights of 18,000 couples takes a lot of balls too.

Not an Unexpected Move (6.50 / 2)
The effort to invalidate the marriages that took place before Proposition 8 passed should not be unexpected.  Every time the forces behind Prop 8 have achieved victory in this area, they have tried to take it further than their initial victory.  It's never enough to stop gay marriage, they have to get rid of those that took place, and eventually the will move towards invalidating ANY form of recognized relationship for gay people, no matter what they try to tell people.  

This will be a painful battle for those whose marriages are at risk, but we can also turn it into a powerful tool if we are brave enough to do that.  This is a warning signal for everyone else in California that the forces behind Prop 8 are not going to stop with simply preventing future marriages between gay and lesbian couples.  They will go further, and they will lie all the way until they are ready to impose their beliefs on all of California.  


what is the legal impact? (8.00 / 1)
essentially the government is enforcing divorce on people, and that has to have all sorts of legal, financial and other consequences for those getting a Ken Starr-enforced divorce.

that is scary.

--
www.gregdewar.com


I think it's actually worse than that (6.50 / 2)
They're just not married.  No formal dissolution, no apportionment of property, no formal change, just suddenly not married.

[ Parent ]
hmmm (8.00 / 1)
that is one way to define it. But I'm sure there's an army of divorce lawyers or other lawyers who could find some way to cause mayhem (maybe some of the Yes on 8 lawyers could self appoint themselves as "divorce" lawyers or something equally crazy and scary) and that's why this whole thing is so bad.

Plus, I thought there was a ban on ex post facto lawmaking in the US...isn't there? Lawyer types, please enlighten.

--
www.gregdewar.com


[ Parent ]
OK, so... (6.50 / 2)
1)  "Ex post facto" is really only applicable to criminal law.  This is a common non-lawyer misunderstanding of the term.

2)  Retroactive civil law is made on a fairly regular basis, though there is a general presumption against retroactivity (which is what AG Brown is arguing w/r/t Proposition 8).  For example (and without any implication that there's a moral equivalence of any sort), once slavery was no longer permitted, the people who owned slaves no longer owned them.  That property right simply vanished.  Or, for example, if you had a supply contract for a substance that was subsequently no longer permitted into the country for regulatory reasons, that contract would be void.

3)  My view of Proposition 8 and marriage is that marriage is an ongoing status that depends on continuing state recognition for the various benefits and responsibilities.  So, if Proposition 8 is valid and the state no longer recognizes these marriages, then as of November 5, those marriages effectively cease to exist, even though the marriage up until that point are valid.

4)  It is actually worse that the marriages just stop without the formality of divorce.  Divorces, painful as they are, have a purpose -- the orderly reallocation of the marital property and the sorting of any other responsibilities (e.g., support and custody of children).  Without that procedure (which is part of what makes marriage special and not just a civil contract), the result is just chaos -- nobody knows what the status is.

5)  All of this suggests how profoundly cruel and misguided Proposition 8 is.


[ Parent ]
Ken Starr, the Nation's Pornographer/Attention my fellow and sister hetero's (6.00 / 3)
... up until now, if you were yourself or in support of a conservative candidate, you were probably hoping that this issue would just go away.

After all, the Prop 8 supporters had gotten what they wanted-  the various neocon evangelical denomination societies acting as PACs for the Republican Party.  Put the wedge issue on the ballot, get the funding and the canvassing, and voila, a few Republican seats were saved here and there, and the Democrats were successfully wedged as the aftermath saw the LDS blog minders trying to blame "the blacks" and "the Latinos" for voting for the thing.  But Obama was President.  That was all that mattered.

Heck, it's not like they were murderin' "them" in the streets,  and the ones who rushed to tie the knot before the Morality Zipper Police restored Order were still married, and the rest of the unruly lot of them still had the civil union option.

Oh, well, such was the price of getting a Democrat in the White House, you were told over the past few days, as Obama picked one of the Morality Zippers, Warren of Saddleback du County d L'Orange, to pray for our continued segregation next month during the Inauguration.  Reach Out and Don't Touch Someone and all that.

Well, excuse me a minute, now, you see now how they just aren't going to stop.

So could y'all start to wake up out there out of your stupor and start to give a damn?

Do you really want another 3 ring circus of the right wing constantly preying on every Democrat in America for the next 4 years on these Morality Zipper Issues ?  Because you know the basic psychology of it, they use it as a distraction issue to continue ripping off the Treasury.

I hope Obama will wake up sooner or later and figure out that of course they aren't going to "play fair," that's not in their toolbox.  He'll figure it out right about the time they go after Michelle.   But in the meantime, I don't see any reason to have the state of California turn into some sort of Arkansas West.

You thought, well, it doesn't affect me, didn't you?  I could continue to ignore this, let teh gays get mad, scream and yell, finally get organized, put it back on the ballot again for 2010,  after all, the LDS has been accusing them of being lackadaisical in their efforts, so it must be true.

Guess again.  

California is facing a fiscal disaster and it's clear the Republican Party would rather see the entire state fall into bankruptcy and massive unemployment and unattended natural disasters, than to have a few more thousand kids and adults living in stable families with access to health care.

This is how they're starting the war.

Wake up.  

All you complacent folk between the ages of 45 and 65, too old to be prime and too young for Medicare, you're next.

All together, sink or swim.


Breaking: Now Jerry Brown is getting into it, wants Prop 8 invalidated (5.00 / 1)
this just in from the LA times:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...


Jerry Brown: Gay-marriage ban should be invalidated
5:34 PM, December 19, 2008
In a surprise move, state Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to invalidate Proposition 8. He said the November ballot measure that banned gay marriage "deprives people of the right to marry, an aspect of liberty that the Supreme Court has concluded is guaranteed by the California Constitution."


What a surprise (6.00 / 2)
Funny how the Prop 8 supporters never mentioned this before the election.

I want the fee back (8.00 / 1)
If they do that, I and the 18000 others want our marriage license fee back, and I don't care how broke this state is!

refund (8.00 / 1)
I agree to a refund of monies spent on legal and binding contracts of marriage between parties A and B at $68 and a fee of $100 paid to Palm Springs for marrying me and my partner of 43 years. Let's see---I figure that will be $168 times 18,000 give or take other expenditures or $3,024,000. The State of California has sold us a faulty product and should be sued for damages.
Let's get a sleasey lawyer to take this on.  Bet the prissy prof from Pepperidge Farms U. would jump at the chance__ religion be damned.
Richard in PS

Proof of hate (8.00 / 1)
I think this action to invalidate existing marriages is simply proof of hate (to those who needed additional proof).

The fundies argument during the campaign went something like this: "We don't hate gays and we want them to have equal rights, but if marriage is legalized, then if a church refuses to marry a gay couple can be sued for discrimination."

That argument is nonsense on stilts, however I don't quite understand how currently married people can sue churches for discrimination.  If married people wanted to be married again, wouldn't that be sort of a Morman thing?

I know that Christians give donuts to gays, but hiring legal hitmen to invalidate marriages is about as low as it gets.


Will the state have to keep marriage licenses on file? (0.00 / 0)
If the court rules the "interim" marriages invalid in CA, will CA still be required to keep the licenses on file?  Is it possible that the records could be purged, increasing the chaos and making proof of marriage outside CA or in the CA courts problematic?  The haters will stop at nothing to hurt us.  Is this another possible avenue open to them?

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